Episode 
17
February 9, 2022

Internal Knowledge Management: Experimentation While Scaling with Paolo Negri, Co-founder at Contentful

Paolo walks us through his early career at startups across Europe, how he built a company solving a problem he faced at those very startups, why he encourages a culture based on experimentation at Contentful, and much more.

Paolo Negri

Contentful Co-founder and CTO

Listen this episode on your favorite platform!

Internal Knowledge Management: Experimentation While Scaling with Paolo Negri, Co-founder at Contentful

Paolo walks us through his early career at startups across Europe, how he built a company solving a problem he faced at those very startups, why he encourages a culture based on experimentation at Contentful, and much more.

0:54  Working across industries & countries

12:40  Lessons from working at startups

15:31  Why he encourages experimentation

29:57  How to see beyond “right vs. wrong”

“I think having an attitude where you take more of what's happening as a learning rather than a verification of what’s right or wrong really allows you to find your path through experiences, whether it is professionally or personally.”

Paolo Negri

Contentful Co-founder and CTO

Paolo Negri on Building Contentful, Experimenting Without Fear, and Learning to Ask What You Learned Instead of Whether You Were Right

Paolo Negri, Co-founder and CTO, Contentful | Interviewed by Luke Alie of Atolio

Paolo Negri co-founded Contentful, an API-first content platform that started in Berlin and is now distributed across Europe and the US. His path through Linux communities, early Ruby on Rails, digital advertising startups, and social gaming in the Berlin startup scene gave him a front-row seat to the Web 2.0 movement and a deep appreciation for what it means to work at an early-stage company. He talks about building a company from a problem he had experienced firsthand, why experimentation is the engine of startup culture, and the mindset shift that helps you navigate any path through uncertainty.

From Milan to Berlin: A Path Through Open Source, Ruby, and the Web 2.0 Movement

Luke Alie (LA):  Tell me about your story and how you got to co-founding Contentful.

Paolo Negri (PN):  I was born in Italy, grew up near Milan, and started getting passionate about computers around 15 or 16. I got into 3D graphics and then, at university, discovered Linux and the open-source community. Back then it was genuinely exceptional that you could access software freely and contribute to a shared project. I remember writing early, naive letters to the Linux networking community and getting to know a little of how that world worked. It shaped how I thought about building technology.

I graduated with a mechanical engineering degree but knew I wanted to work in software. I chose my first job specifically because it involved Linux, networking, and open source. That led me to scripting and automation, then to Ruby, then to Ruby on Rails, which connected me to the Web 2.0 movement that was just getting started. It became clear to me that technology and company building were deeply related in a new way.

In Italy there wasn't much going on, so I started looking outside the country. I found a small software-as-a-service company for the accommodation business that wanted to convert their systems from PHP to Ruby on Rails. That experience, small as it was, exposed me to what it really means to run a SaaS company. From there I moved through London, Munich, and finally Berlin to be closer to the startup ecosystem I wanted to be part of. I ended up at Wooga, an early social gaming company in Berlin that had just raised a round. The company grew quickly, became one of the success stories of the Berlin ecosystem, and gave me real exposure to how a funded startup operates and what founders actually work on day to day.

The Problem That Became Contentful: Structured Content in Dynamic Applications

LA:  The Contentful idea had been in your mind for a while before you co-founded it. What was the insight?

PN:  When I met my co-founder Sascha, he already had a minimum viable product around managing content for mobile applications. When he described it, what I immediately saw was that the concept was much more broadly applicable. Making content available in a structured, API-first form that could be dynamically integrated into any kind of application, not just mobile.

At Wooga I had seen firsthand how social games had an enormous need to manage game content that was not page-like. It was structured data embedded in a live application. Traditional content management systems did not serve that well. Before that, in the classified advertising and digital advertising businesses where I had also worked, the same pattern existed: content needed to be structured and embeddable in dynamic contexts. When Sascha showed me the concept, I recognized the problem immediately from multiple angles.

I decided to make the leap because I felt I could contribute both to building it and to understanding the market for it. I understood the personas. I knew who the customers were because I had been one of them. And in the early days we really did have to explain why an API-first approach to content was a valid idea, because it was genuinely new. My background helped make that argument in a credible way.

What Early-Stage Startup Experience Teaches You About Experimentation

LA:  Looking back at the startups you worked at before Contentful, what did you carry into the company?

PN:  The most important thing was an attitude of experimentation. It's okay not to know something perfectly. You need to be ready to face uncertainty, to have an intuition and go verify it rather than waiting until you're certain. At Traffic Broker, the company in London that is now Forward Technology, I saw a very experimental approach to finding new lines of business. You don't stay in the comfort zone. You go out of it, test, and learn. At Wooga, social gaming is a brutal business because there is no sure-shot recipe for which game will succeed. You need a methodology that lets you progressively explore the space. That discipline of taking measured bets and learning from them was something I internalized before I fully understood its value.

Preserving Directness and Access as Contentful Scaled

LA:  What from those early days at Contentful have you tried to hold onto as the company has grown?

PN:  Directness and the free flow of ideas. When we thought about office design, one principle we committed to was no private single-person rooms. Always rooms for teams. The idea that you can walk up to anyone at any level and have a conversation. As you grow, that gets harder. People start to assume certain people are inaccessible. Making sure accessibility is real rather than just stated is something we have consistently curated.

On the functional side, as we scaled we had to get much more deliberate about documentation and communication conventions. In the early days you share knowledge just by being in the same room as people who have been exposed to how things work. That model breaks down. You need to document. You need clarity about what goes in a Slack message versus a Google Doc versus a wiki, and what you expect to be answered in real time versus asynchronously. Those conventions evolved several times over the years and they continue to be tested at every stage of growth.

The Future: Contentful as an Open, Extensible Platform

LA:  Where do you see Contentful heading from an engineering and product perspective?

PN:  We want to continue expanding Contentful as a genuinely open platform where customers, partners, and Contentful itself can all build. We launched an application framework in 2020 to provide a standard way for anyone to extend the platform. The future is about deeper configurability: making Contentful an environment where you can connect any digital experience infrastructure, building experiences with a high degree of freedom while staying connected to a shared content foundation. The principle we keep working toward is symmetry: whatever we enable for ourselves internally, we want to enable externally as well.

The Most Valuable Mindset Shift: Learning vs. Judging

LA:  What's the best question I haven't asked you?

PN:  Something I've genuinely learned along this journey: rather than asking yourself whether something was right or wrong, ask yourself what you learned from it. Having an attitude where you take what happens as a learning rather than a verdict really does allow you to find your path through experiences, professionally and personally. I've had a path that led me around different countries and very different kinds of companies. I've faced a lot of uncertainty about what the next step was. Thinking less in terms of right or wrong and more in terms of what am I learning, and how do I reason about it going forward, is the framing that has helped me most.

LA:  Paolo, thank you so much for coming on the show.

PN:  Thank you for having me. Great to spend some time thinking about the past and the things that really shaped my life.

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